Pope on trial?

Posted April 17, 2008 by JJSaidIt Staff

When I first heard of the Catholic Church molestation scandal a few years ago, I immediately thought it was an isolated case. Now more than 5000 victims have come forward and the Church has shelled out more than $2 billion.

Since the Pope is in the US this week, I had to ask the following question, “Shouldn’t the Catholic Church (including the Pope) be put on trial for crimes against humanity?” Before you answer, take a second and hear me out.

As my partner, Sylk would say, “the evidence shows.” For example, it is estimated that thousands more victims are too ashamed to come forward so the estimated 5000 victims could easy be double or higher. - Mass Sex Crime

The Church has admitted to knowing that many of the Priests were sexually abusing children, but decided to move those priests to other church locations rather than contact the police. - Aiding & Abeding a Criminal

Last but certainly not least, we cannot avoid the fact that had this happened in any organization other than a powerful religious one such as the Catholic Church. Not only would there be a public outcry from every government official, but also the organization would be shut down and the leaders would be held solely responsible in the court of law. What happened in the Catholic Church is no different from what happened in Waco with David Koresh or polygamist sect leader Warren Jeffs.

But don’t worry, I already know why this trial won’t happen……it’s simple, the Pope is considered “Jesus on Earth” to many…you can’t put Jesus on trial or can you.

PS: I almost forgot to mention the millions of people who were spiritually crippled by this and will never recover.

Click here to read the rest

The Pope is against condoms

Dang Karl…

Michael Jordan…Why its cheaper to keep her

Religion

16 Comments »

Torus's comment says
On April 17, 2008 at 11:40 am
JohnJohn somebody from the Vatican will be in touch with you…lol. But on the real, I don’t know if the higher up of the church knew what was going on totally but if they did then they gone burn in hell.
Starchild's comment says
On April 17, 2008 at 11:51 am
I think everybody deserves a chance to be forgiven especially Priest because they serve God everyday all day. You can’t just look at their flaws and overlook their great qualities. That’s just wrong.
AD's comment says
On April 17, 2008 at 1:19 pm
I understand your feelings Starchild, but if that’s the case, you should feel the same for all the men locked up in prison who have the disease of pedifilism, but also have really great character. Is there a standard or isn’t it? I didn’t ask if it was a double standard, because according to your remark, there is. Torus is looking at the Priest as he should, and although thee priests should be forgiven, they should also be held more accountable because of their position. It’s difficult to empathize with people who have continuously turned the other cheek. They forgot about the most important people in this scenario… The Victims!
Optimistic's comment says
On April 18, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Have any of you been molested, raped or anything close to that? How can you molest children and then have a good character? Was that a joke AD?
Everyone deserves forgiveness, but that doesn’t mean they should go unpunished. It’s hard for me to imagine what sort of person it would take to harm or touch a child. It would take a coward, a disgusting pig or probably something much more worse. It would take a monster and yes, God forgives, but he also PUNISHES!!! Know that and never forget that. All I’ll do is pray for the sick souls out there. And the worst part of all is that most of the sickos are praying using the words, “In Jesus’ name.” How awful… God’s coming back and he’s coming soon. The world’s too sick!
I’m praying that the Pope is inoccent as I wish everyone else was, but if he isn’t man, I hope he doesn’t get off because of who he is. God said that we are to follow the laws of the land. That’s wrong no matter who you are or where you are!
AD's comment says
On April 19, 2008 at 10:46 am
Optimistic, the more responses you leave, the less intelligent or stupid you sound. Character isn’t based off of sin, because then no one would have good charater because they wouldn’t have a chance to build or develop it. Character is about how you respond to sin. The fact that you’re most focused on the punishment rather than being concerned with the repentance and forgiveness tells me where you stand as a christian.. within yourself! Teuila said it correctly.. You are SELF RIGHTEOUS. Please stop saying you’re representing God and say you’re representing yourself beacause a christian is supposed to be “Christ-Like” and you’re giving God a bad name. Your spiritual outlook is actually disgusting me. The pope and all other priests that continuously molest and rape children should be punished accordingly, but for those who do it, repent for it, and never do again.. you have to forgive them the same way you would forgive a man or woman who has cheated on their spouse and learned from it. Their molesting kids and still you could be heading to hell the fastest, because the one thing you have too much of is pride… and with pride comes the downfall.. that’s in the bible.. look it up. ADsaidit.
Stay on topic with the blog and get your stuff together if you wanna evangelize on johnjohnsaidit.com
kimo's comment says
On April 19, 2008 at 5:14 pm
“The pope and all other priests that continuously molest and rape children should be punished accordingly”
AD, what is the Pope being punished for? The sentence makes it sound that he may also be molesting? Could you clarify that, please? Not trying to argue by any means, but I am not aware of public wrongdoing by Benedict. And recall the Benedict was not the pontiff when the US cases started coming out. If I remember correctly, JP2 was pretty irate about the way US bishops, under the advice of the lawyers, handled the situation, aside from the fact the abuse even happened. Lets not forget about the legal council they took; funny the lawyers are overlooked by the press for this situation. In addition, as horrible as it sounds, *** offenders are often entered into rehab programs after serving little time in prison and then released back into society, sometimes without needing to register as an offender, regardless of occupation. How do I know this? I worked for a non-profit org. that provided rehab for *** offenders. I am glad of the work I did but I would much rather work with victims if I return to that field. Every pedophile or rapist should be duly punished to the full extent of the law; no exception if they are a priest, pastor, reverend, rabbi, teacher, policman, doctor, bartender… anything. Also, for the clergy, it is not just a Catholic, or ***, or pedophilic issue. Clergy abuse comes in a wide range of offenders and victims. Numbers wise, it may affect more Catholics, though, according to one source, clergy abuse maybe more likely to occur in a Baptist community, percentage wise. Also, the more cult-like or outside-the-norm a religion (Mormon, Jehova Witness, Amish), the more likely the abuse will not be reported, and it will much more likely to be incestual. Regardless of who it happens to, it should not be kept quiet and it should be “punished accordingly.” Well said, AD.
Peace and Aloha.

Here a few links if anyone would like some more info:

http://www.abpnews.com/1640.article

http://www.reformation.com/CSA/allabuse.html
kimo's comment says
On April 19, 2008 at 5:27 pm
“So if anybody asks why you challenge “the norm” and push the proverbial envelope…..feel free to responds in typical JohnJohn fashion…“If I don’t…who will?””
JohnJohn
The Catholic Church has kinda been talked about quite a bit already; I think you are a bit late on this one. This is the norm, and the envelope has been pushed all the way to Egypt. How about giving voice to the victims of other mass *** or war crimes or genocide; you know, if you don’t say it, who will? This ones been said…. alot. Just trying to keep you honest to your word. Havent looked yet, but you got anything on the Draft next week?
Peace and Aloha
JohnJohn's comment says
On April 19, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Kimo…I’m sure if you ask some of the victims if the envelope has been pushed hard enough or if justice has been served, the answer will be a resounding “NO”. Obviously the Pope still feels the same way as he said, “I am ashamed” as he spoke of the scandal this week while visiting the United States. I don’t think the Catholic Church or any of us should forget that thousands upon thousands of KIDS were molested by Leaders of one of the largest Christian organizations in the world. As long as injustice exists we must continue to bring it to the forefront because we, especially Americans, seem to have amnesia once the major media outlets stop covering an issue. The good news is that JohnJohnSaidIt.com is not the typical major media outlet and so I’ll continue to push the envelope because…………… “If I don’t…who will”.
kimo's comment says
On April 19, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Johnjohn, though most of my work was with offenders, I was able to work with some victims and you are dead right that victims will never have enough justice, though we can try. I have. Could I have done more, yes, but I really do not want to return to the field and I have had my fill of working with offenders, who are often victims of past abuse themselves. No, none of us should forget the suffering that people in positions of trust and power have inflicted on our innocents. The majority of the victims I treated were under 18 and it is horrible to look into the mind of kid and see the damage rent by a pedophile (none of the victims I worked with had been victimized by clergy; it was mostly done by friends of the family or family themselvs). I read and now unerstand your definition of pushing the envelope; I thought maybe your ‘mission statement’ (my term, sorry) meant something else, and I am sorry for my mistake. If I could suggest, maybe venturing outside the mass media’s current and bring some light on some of the more under-represented victims. I know, you are not running the site specifically as a victims advocacy tool, but this is your site and can push the envelope in any direction you wish and continue to show us and the major media outlets you are not typcial.
For the question if the Catholic Church and the Pope should be put on trial for crimes against humanity, I kind of think the media attention helped identify both the parties responsible for the abuse as well as the cover-uppers, right? When you researched the info on the numbers of victims did you get any data that you could post regarding convictions? Dude, haha, were you going to include Br. Bernie from Ch’m'nade as required to go on trial, too? How about Fr. Ken? Did you ever meet any of the Carmelite Nuns at the retreat center up on the Pali? Though, yes, we know that women can victimize just as visciously as men, something tells me that those Carmelites will be acquitted. Brotherman, it’s your site and you can include or omit any data and info you want, but thanks for giving us a voice on your site johnjohn. How bout some stuff on the draft, man? Peace and aloha.
Optimistic's comment says
On April 20, 2008 at 1:17 pm
I’m impressed with Kimo’s comments… you sound very educated. I’m glad you stand firm on your beliefs. “Every pedophile or rapist should be duly punished to the full extent of the law; no exception if they are a priest, pastor, reverend, rabbi, teacher, policman, doctor, bartender… anything.” I couldn’t have said it better myself.

And AD, we don’t have to make this a shouting match. I’m sorry if I’ve come in anyway other than loving. I’m a Christian and I love Jesus. I do believe in forgiveness and repentence, but I was talking in terms of the law. It doesn’t matter if a man kills 10 people and repents, if he’s caught and convicted then he will be punished. And so the same goes for the men and women that molest children. It’s against the law. They should be punished. But it’s all love over here…
JohnJohn's comment says
On April 20, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Kimo…Thanks for the insight and I’m glad that you spoke up because you definitely added a different perspective to the conversation. Its obvious that your prior experience and knowledge of the subject has brought you a deeper insight than most of us can speak about and I like the idea of being a louder voice for the victims. So the next time this issue comes up, and I’m sure it will, you will definitely hear me speak even louder for them. Being a former Chaminadian yourself, I’m sure you understand the conflict in my heart when it comes to this issue. Its hard to imagine a Christian organization that helped create such a great college experience for me could also cause such torment to others. So if Br. Bernie, Br. Tom, Father Ken, or any others for that matter, were involved then I would hope they would be judged appropriately. That being said, I’m not a Catholic hater and I would definitely support a Catholic institution, such as Chaminade, because I know the good that comes when things are done the “right way”.

BTW, I got some stuff for the draft coming soon. A different perspective. Can’t wait to hear your thoughts.
Teuila's comment says
On April 20, 2008 at 2:30 pm
The priests should stand trial like any person, as everyone has already said. I think we should also hold our government accountable for not trying these law-breaking individuals. Once we put pressure on the Gov’t, it would speak loudly about our convictions. But the Gov’t won’t budge unless we all work it in the system. Yes, if the Pope has broken the law, he should stand trial just the same.
Optimistic's comment says
On April 20, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Well said Teuila. Somehow we’ve allowed our gov’t to make a double standard according to money and rank. Wrong is wrong.
Sunnee's comment says
On April 20, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Well, well John John as usual controversy is in your blood. So, let me add to the flames you have ignited. Let’s first address the Priest’s unnatural state of sexual neglect or supposed abstinence. Is it trully safe for a man to starve his physical needs? Even the word of God ” THE BIBLE” states that it is better for a man to get married than to burn in lust! We can talk more on that later.
Next, if a crime is committed the punishment for violating the laws of the land, and/or moral law, should be pursued and a punishment that matches the crime committed should be exacted on those who break the law. NO ONE should be above the law. On that note I am talking about the law of our nations and the laws clearly spelled out in the BIBLE. The Bible says that we must reape what we have sown. It also says that although we may be forgiven for our crimes or failures we must be held accountable for our actions. The Bible also says what is done in the dark will come to light. Could it be that God is revealing the failings of the church because His law demands that he not lie and those who are under His law must be brought out into the light in orfer for true healing to take place? Alright one last thought, those people who say that they are spiritually cripped by the actions of the church this is for you. Stop looking at people as your example and look at the one true example CHRIST! Like Peter, a character the the Bible, he stepped out onto a lake wanting to walk on water like Jesus. He was okay and able to walk on the water so long as his eyes stayed on Jesus. When he took his eyes off he sank and the only way back to the surface was to refocus on the source of his miracle. Look up!
Tunette's comment says
On April 20, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Sunnee… wow, you’re on a role… please stay on Johnjohnsaidit.com… get on here everyday because I swear I read these mugs all day and hesistate to comment, but you are bringing that Christ like knowledge girl… I just love it. You’ve tatooed the word in your heart and it’s pouring out like ink. Everything you’re saying is what I’m thinking. It sure is looking Sunnee on johnjohnsaidit.com…
Martha Wilson's comment says
On April 22, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Wow, I’m not even sure of where to start. I’ve actually had this conversation with my sister…. and I can’t imagine any circumstance where pedofilia or molestation would be okay or forgiven. It’s not even because it is against the law, though it is! Not even so much because it is against the bible and God and it is! It’s because it is so sickening…. a child is so innocent…. always learning and seeking out love… and for someone who holds your trust and whom you look up to for guidance(especially in the sensitive area of faith) to take that away from you for such a selfish reason is unforgiveable. Unforgivable by the courts. Unforgiveable by the church and even unforgiveable by God. I’ve even shocked my husband when I told him that- I don’t want to be a part of a heaven that can just forgive scum like this. It’s one thing to lie or steal, but things like rape or murder that isn’t out of self defense can not be casual sins. I’m not saying you have to be perfect, but there is a quantum leap of difference between picking a bluebonnet in Texas and this shameful conduct. And personally, I think that priests and people of the church should be held to an even higher standard because they DAMN WELL know better!